Saturday, February 2, 2008

Revs AND Pastors AND Ministers

The invitation to join 100Revs is to anyone who is a pastor or minister of a Christian church or leader of a Christian ministry or agency.

"100Revs" was a catchy title rather than a restriction of the campaign to only ordained clergy. Please pass the invitation on to other ministers that you know.

6 comments:

Andrew Jones said...

Mike

I support the 100revs all the way.

Its a message long over due and it has taken courage and resolve to make a stand for what is right.

I have read some reports which have gone on the attack but that is to be expected. There are many that have not realised God's heart on this crucial issue

Mardi Gras is everything about celbrating Diversity in Unity ... the same message the Apostle Paul tried earnestly to get across to the Corinthians. In God's creation we all have a part to play, every shape, size, colour and creed.

At the Lord's table their is room for many more and the invitation to celebrate life during Mardi Gras is the perfect setting.

To all the negative Nellie's in the church that have attacked 100Revs ... shame on you! Get off you high horse and start living and loving the way Christ intended you too. Come and celebrate life and dversity during Mardi Gras and befriend a few gay guys and girls. We won't bite ... not unless you ask us too :-)

Peter said...

There certainly is room for more people at the Lord's Table Andrew, but God makes it very clear there is a need to repent AND turn from all sin to receive HIS communion.
Perhaps you and Mike might actually show where God has changed HIS mind about "sexual immorality". HIS understanding of those two words clearly means ALL sex outside marriage between a man and a woman. Read Genesis through to Revelation for a consistent meaning.
I challenge you to show the evidence of God's supposed 'change of heart' and to tell us if that is just relevant to homosexuality or all sexual activity outside marriage.
In the meantime, as I do not believe you can come up with the evidence, I suggest you read a book called 'You don’t have to Be Gay' By Jeff Conrad
Jeff is an ex-homosexual and this book is a series of letters to a homosexual friend.
Jeff writes in the introduction: "You Don’t Have To Be Gay contains the understanding, wisdom and direction I used to change my homosexual identity. And I’m not just talking about behaviour or surface stuff. I’m talking about deep-down change. I no longer have the feelings, desires, temptations, orientation, or identity of the past. I am convinced you can experience this also.
You may find this change hard to believe. But once you have grasped the concept of gender identity development, I trust you too will conclude that you don’t have to be gay, and that you also can overcome your homosexual feelings and desires. I sincerely hope You Don’t Have To Be Gay will provide that spark, that hope, to all who read it.
Join me and discover the causes of homosexuality and the ways to overcome them."
Happy reading.
Mike, I suggest you read this before mardi gras night. I have copies and will express post one to you free if you are prepared to read it. This will counter some of the false teaching from certain other people in Sydney!!
I also recommend you go to http://www.tms.edu/tmsj/tmsj3h.pdf where James B. De Young gives a very clear expose of this issue - using the whole text of Corinthians.
Sincerely
Peter Stokes
Salt Shakers

Nathan Keen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Andrew said...

Peter

I read the journal

Awfully biased from a conservative stand point and not really a good overview to be honest

Andrew said...

The Apostle Paul was a 1st Century Christian

Given the mountian of evidence stacking up against the churches position I think Paul wouldn't be concerned about same sex love and its normality ... I honestly don't.

Paul's letter to the Corinthians and in particular the 1st and 2nd chapters are concerned to with something much more pressing than same sex love.

Interestingly as one reads through the first 2 chapters of 1Corinthians it is obvious Paul is dealing with Christians that have turned away from God. I see no condemnation of those that follow and love God who are in same sex loving relationships. Perhaps Peter you would be so kind to shed your observations of the context in more depth

Peter said...

Andrew says "Given the mountain of evidence stacking up against the churches position I think Paul wouldn't be concerned about same sex love and its normality ... I honestly don't."
Honestly, Andrew? Really? You know, do you? Because another homosexual says so, Andrew?

Remember what Jesus said to the rich young Ruler Andrew – I am absolutely convinced He would say the same to you Andrew – His god was really money, yours is clearly your sexuality and it has clearly blinded you to the truth.
Clearly there is an enormous load of ‘self justification’ standing between you and a clear reading of anything including God’s own Word if you think you know better than so many scholars Andrew, including the writer of that article.
Please supply the “mountain of evidence stacking up against the churches position” Andrew – I would really love to see it.
By the way, have you seen the latest APA brochure? http://www.apa.org/topics/sorientation.html
Amongst a lot of unsubstantiated rhetoric, a bit like you come out with Andrew, they admit that “ There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation.
There is no consensus - because there is NO evidence EXCEPT what God says in the BIBLE, I made them Male and Female -Jesus repeated it.
Back to Paul
Paul was not too busy, even though being harassed by the Jews and Romans and trying to nurture a young church to tell them in Romans 1: 26 Because of this, [turning from God] God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."
But then there is HOPE, ANDREW, Jesus told the young man to go and give away all your money (his gods, your sinful sexual orientation). Repent and come back and follow ME, He said.
He wants to heal you Andrew and make you whole but only YOU can do it. He has done his bit – that is why we are celebrating EASTER this weekend.